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Light Tanks Groupbuild

Event details

Name:Light Tanks Groupbuild
Town: US
About:-Any light tank, any scale, any era, Must be classified as a light tank or tankette. Panzer jaegers, tank destroyers, engineering vehicles, etc. built on light tank chassis are not allowed.
Contest:The event has no contest

When

Date:3. April until 31. October 2014
Opening hours:24/7/365

Location

Town:
Map:Show map'
Parking options:None

Entrance fees

Entrance fees:None

Attendees

20 mates are planning to visit this event

Exhibitors

 

Visitors

Mike Goldberg
US MikeyBugs95
Wim van der Luijt
NL Loftinsulator
Paul Green
IE Sir Twig
Martyn Fox
GB Bigfoxy61
George Bacon
US Gbmodeler
Dave Flitton
US Dflitton
Lionel Marco
FR Yoyo le Petaf
william wise
US billwise
Alan Rush
CA alanrush
David Styres
CA Capt.Kill
Rick Beman
US RickB464
 

In competition

George Bacon
US Gbmodeler
 

Photoalbums

There are 8 photoalbums related to this event.

View album0
Updated: October 24, 2014
View album140153
Updated: October 13, 2014
View album0
Updated: November 21, 2014
View album0
Updated: January 20, 2015
View album131523
Updated: August 25, 2014
Updated: April 23, 2014
View album150300
Updated: December 1, 2014
View album0
Updated: June 14, 2014

Show reports

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Newsfeed

Rick Beman is attending
15. July 2014 at 01:19:28 Share
Rick Beman If a Hetzer counts as a light tank, I'm in!
15. July 2014 at 01:22:56
Hunter Cummins I think its a medium tank but I dont know lol
I am building a hetzer now
18. July 2014 at 15:16:22
Wayne Hale The Hetzer 38T is built on the 38t light tank chassis, but it is a tank destroyer and does qualify as a light tank.
18. July 2014 at 16:03:46
John Van Kooten A Hetzer is not a tank ;)

The German Arms Ministry classified the Hetzer and similar turret-less combat vehicles with the specific task of destroying tanks as "Panzerjäger" (Tank Hunter). The US classified all of these tank hunters as "Tank Destroyers".

In a similar way vehicles like the Marder and Hummel are classified as SPG's, Self Propelled Guns (often referred to as Mobile Artillery). They are also not tanks :)
18. July 2014 at 16:05:22
Jörg Luther Ahem, hate to correct you, John ;) Hetzer was categorized as Jagdpanzer ( "hunting tank" ), same category as Jagdpanzer IV, Jagdpanther and Jagdtiger. As opposed to Panzerjäger ( "tank hunter", Marders etc. ) or Panzerhaubitze ("tank howitzer", Wespe, Hummel).

As a vague rule of thumb: Gun in open combat compartment = Selbstfahrlafette ( "self driving gun carriage" ), gun in closed combat compartment = Panzer (en.: tank, lit. german: "armour", meaning armoured vehicle).

Beyond that, there seems to be a little semantic discrepancy: As far as I see, the english word "tank" refers exclusively to the kind of vehicle a german would describe as Panzerkampfwagen (WW II) or Kampfpanzer (today, same meaning as MBT). In german, nearly any tracked vehicle is a "Panzer". E.g. we call a MICV a Schützenpanzer ( lit.: "rifleman's tank" ).

So is a Hetzer a "light tank"? In angloamerican terminology: probably not. In german military terminology there is nothing like a "light tank". But you could describe Hetzer as leichter Panzer, because it's a Panzer, and with 16 tons it's definitely a light one. 8)

18. July 2014 at 18:47:16
Rick Beman How about we have a Jeep build so there won't be any doubts ;)
18. July 2014 at 23:42:11
Hunter Cummins Ok sounds good lol
I just domthve a jeep haha
19. July 2014 at 00:40:57
John Van Kooten There are no doubts ;) A Hetzer is not a tank.

A classification of "tank" is well defined and outlined by a number of specific properties. For instance, a tank needs to have a turret that is able to rotate 360 degrees. If if doesn't have that, it isn't a tank. Simple as that.

By the way, the initial meaning of the word "tank" when the thing was first invented was exactly the literal meaning: an enclosed box (like fish-tank). As was the initial literal meaning of "Panzer" because it was an armored vehicle. So if you go by the literal meaning of those words, any and all military vehicles would fall in the tank classification because all of them are armored and have the properties of a box ;) except Jeeps :P lol

'-----

A classification or category of "Panzerhaubitze" doesn't exist for WWII vehicles. They were actually classified as Artillerie-Selbstfahrlafette in WWII, with the sub-classifications of Leichte Artillerie-Selbstfahrlafette and Schwere Artillerie-Selbstfahrlafette. In English that was translated to (Light / Heavy) Self-Propelled Gun (SPG) and Mobile Artillery was also often used.

'-----

And I'm sorry, I should have added more information to my previous post. My bad.

There seems to be a lot of confusion between classifications and type naming. Panzerjäger is a general (and official, mind you!) classification while Jagdpanzer is a type name (to describe / name a certain number of vehicles with a specific task). Jagdpanzer is NOT a classification.

My main source of information is from the book "German Tanks of WW II" by Dr. S. Hart and Dr. R. Hart. It contains references to documents of the German Defense Ministry 1943-1945 on vehicles manufactured by BMM and Skoda (specifically, the Hetzer). It says Hetzers and similar vehicles fall under the panzerjäger classification.

'-----

Another reference is Osprey New Vanguard No. 36 - Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer 1944-45.

The official name of the vehicle was:

Initially: Sturmgeschutz neuer Art / Sturmgeschutz 38(t)

Later on, renamed by General Heinz Guderian because he didn't command Sturmgeschutze, to "Leichte Panzerjäger auf 38(t)", just so he could lay claim on those vehicles as well.

General Guderian won out and the official name became "Panzerjäger 38 fur 7,5cm PaK 39 ( L/48 ) (Sd.Kfz.138/2)".

On 11th of September 1944 the name was officially renamed to "Jagdpanzer 38 - Panzerjäger 38 (7,5cm PaK 39 ( L/48 )) (Sd.Kfz.138/2)".

'-----

The same is true for the Jagdpanzer IV.

The early ( L/48 ) vehicle was officially called "Panzerjäger IV (Sd.Kfz.162)" (source: "Panzer Tracks No. 9 - Jagdpanzer", Thomas L. Jentz). But initially also "Sturmgeschütz neuer Art mit 7.5 cm Pak L/48 auf Fahrgestell PzKpfw IV".

The L/70 version was NOT named Jagdpanzer at all. It was officially called "Panzer IV L/70 (Sd.Kfz.162/1)". Two models were manufactured. By Vomag, indicated by (V) and Alkett, indicated by (A) in their respective names.

Alkett version: "Panzer IV L/70 (A) (Sd.Kfz.162/1)"
Vomag Version: "Panzer IV L/70 (V) (Sd.Kfz.162/1)"

The name Jagdpanzer IV L/70 was made up by "historians"...

'-----

The main training center for Hetzer crew was Milovice - panzerjägerschule. Hetzer vehicles were organised in panzerjäger units as part of infantry divisions (in a Panzerjäger Abteilung, Panzerjäger Kompanie or even StuG Kompanie).

'-----

Literal translations of the words panzer, jagdpanzer, panzerjäger, etc. etc. are not classifications. Jagdpanzer is the TYPE name of those vehicles, including the Hetzer, but a name is not a classification!

The "Panzerjäger" classification includes: Hetzer, Jagdpanzer IV, Jagdpanther, Jagdtiger, Marder, Hornisse, Nashorn, Elefant, StuG IV. Basically all tracked vehicles that carried an anti-tank gun.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerj%C3%A4ger

StuIG33, Sturmpanzer, Sturmhaubitze and Stug, for instance, fall in the "Sturmartillerie" classification because they carry an artillery piece with the purpose of attacking and destroying fortifications. In English this classification is often referred to as SPG (Self-Propelled Gun) or Mobile Artillery.

The Stug, however, was kind of an odd ball in the range because depending on their armament some fall in the Sturmartillery classification and some fall in the Panzerjäger classification.

'-----

Anyway, I could write an entire book in this text box about naming conventions and classifications but I'm going to stop here. Everyone / anyone, take from it what you want or ignore it, the choice is yours :)
19. July 2014 at 10:22:32
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Choppa Nutta is attending
20. June 2014 at 17:52:06 Share
David Styres is attending
19. June 2014 at 15:19:39 Share
Mike Goldberg Starting my M41 soon.
8. June 2014 at 23:06:00 Share
Murad ÖZER is attending
26. May 2014 at 12:16:56 Share
Mike Goldberg So what'll you build, Hunter?
4. April 2014 at 15:15:05 Share
View full thread (13 Comments)
Fabian D. Now that you´re saying it... right... ;)
Just have to check which kit got a trench skid and maybe the modified hatches the Germans used... as soon as I´ve figured that out, I´m ready to go.
All in all, I´m aiming for something like this:
[img1]
5. April 2014 at 15:47:00
Mike Goldberg Ok. Good luck.
5. April 2014 at 17:20:12
B Do Shermans work? I'm more of an aircraft guy and don't know much about tanks.
5. April 2014 at 17:26:58
Hunter Cummins No sorry man lol
you need a scout car panzer 1, panzer 2 stuat tank and so on
5. April 2014 at 17:28:27
B Oh,ok maybe I'll get something. We'll see
5. April 2014 at 17:29:29
5. April 2014 at 17:30:14
Mike Goldberg Scout cars don't work unless they're fully tracked vehicles. M3/M5 Stuarts work, all Pz. I/II, Pz. 35/38, M41, M51 Sheridan, etc. work. All fully tracked vehicles, classifed as light tanks, reconnaissance tanks, or tankettes work. Shermans do not because they are medium tanks.
5. April 2014 at 20:07:45
24. May 2014 at 21:18:47
Add comment »
Dave Flitton How do I add an album to this?
12. May 2014 at 03:19:10 Share
Hunter Cummins Add the name of the Groupbuild into the title
21. May 2014 at 01:14:36
21. May 2014 at 19:12:33
Add comment »
Alexander Voxlin is attending
20. May 2014 at 14:18:09 Share
Alexander Voxlin T-26, Zvezda. Mod 1933.
20. May 2014 at 14:37:11
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Alan Rush is attending
24. April 2014 at 15:46:10 Share
Wayne Hale is attending
23. April 2014 at 00:32:58 Share
Wayne Hale I am planning on this. Can't decide on Panzer Kpfw. 38(t) or M3A1 Stuart. Any suggestions?
21. April 2014 at 17:25:22 Share
Hunter Cummins I think the M3A1 would be cool to see
21. April 2014 at 18:03:20
Add comment »
william wise is attending
20. April 2014 at 03:40:18 Share
william wise i jump in on this one not sure what to build but im leaning toward a Pz II but that means i will have to go buy one :)
20. April 2014 at 03:42:13
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Lionel Marco Hi guys!

I'm joining this event with a Toldi II, if it pleases you..
15. April 2014 at 10:46:30 Share
Mike Goldberg Sure thing. Welcome aboard
19. April 2014 at 04:50:59
Lionel Marco
Thank you!
Build is alreadu started, but I'm still waiting for some aftermarkets stuffs like tracks and gun barrel..
19. April 2014 at 06:56:47
19. April 2014 at 17:44:24
Add comment »
Alan Rush I think I could finish a kit by October. Looking at my stash, I have no light tanks to build. Hmmm.
16. April 2014 at 18:42:31 Share
H K Is there a better excuse to buy one :)
16. April 2014 at 19:17:17
Fabian D. apart from your birthday, christmas and easter ... no.. :D
16. April 2014 at 19:43:53
Mike Goldberg Oh... I could always extend the finish date here. I put the dates down as such so as to line up with the build I'm also hosting on Armorama... But I could always extend it out some here.
19. April 2014 at 04:48:59
Alan Rush It's OK Mike. When dealing with a procrastinator like myself, never offer to extend the deadline! It will still be finished in a rush at the end anyway.
19. April 2014 at 04:58:56
Mike Goldberg Ha. I'm a procrastinator as well. In the build on the Armorama site, which has been going on for more than two weeks now, I've just been pushing and pushing myself to get the kit that I'm working on done. The painting is where I can never quite seem to get done.
19. April 2014 at 05:04:45
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Łukasz Gliński Just started bulding the Panzer I Ausf.A in 1/72 by First to Fight
15. April 2014 at 16:38:59 Share
Mike Goldberg Ok. Welcome on.
19. April 2014 at 04:51:00
Add comment »
George Bacon I've got it narrowed down to a Renault R-35, Stuart M5A1, Vickers E (both A & B), TP-7, Panzer 1, Panzer 2, or something else... :(. Any suggestions?
16. April 2014 at 01:52:00 Share
Mike Goldberg Any and all is fine if you're capable. :) But the final decision is totally up to you.
19. April 2014 at 04:50:03
Add comment »
Barry Lloyd is attending
16. April 2014 at 19:27:59 Share
Barry Lloyd Just noticed the groupbuild, as it happens I was given an AFV Club FV101 Scorpion for Christmas and I was wondering what to build next!
16. April 2014 at 19:33:02
Add comment »
Fabian D. is attending
5. April 2014 at 15:03:45 Share
Fabian D. I´m switching now for a russian T-26, as I couln´t decide wich H-39 to kitbash with which (too many interresting choices there)... anyway, after starting a a giant roadsign (KV-2), I felt like getting a small one, too ;)
[img1]
15. April 2014 at 21:14:25
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Łukasz Gliński is attending
15. April 2014 at 16:37:46 Share
Lionel Marco is attending
15. April 2014 at 10:45:14 Share
Dave Flitton is attending
11. April 2014 at 03:21:56 Share
Dave Flitton I guess I am already building mine!!! M5A1, M3A3, M3, M3A1
11. April 2014 at 03:23:25
Mike Goldberg Ok. Good luck and have fun.
15. April 2014 at 06:53:11
Add comment »
Paul Green is attending
8. April 2014 at 10:52:17 Share
Paul Green Is a Walker Bulldog classified as light? It's either that or another Panzer 1 !!
12. April 2014 at 08:36:11
Mike Goldberg Yeah. Both are fine.
15. April 2014 at 06:52:51
Add comment »
11. April 2014 at 09:56:03 Share
Marco van den Hooven Hi Guys,

Would a PT-76 fit this groupbuild?

PT-76B (Trumpeter 00381, 1:35)

Regards,

Marco

1:35 PT-76B (Trumpeter 00381)
10. April 2014 at 09:53:05 Share
Mike Goldberg Yes. A PT-76 fits
11. April 2014 at 03:05:53
Marco van den Hooven Nice, I'll join with this tank. It's already on its way to my house.
(Had to buy it, as I didnt have it in my stash)
11. April 2014 at 09:53:28
Add comment »
George Bacon I'm in, but have to decide what to do :)
10. April 2014 at 16:01:19 Share
George Bacon is attending
10. April 2014 at 16:00:16 Share
Martyn Fox is attending
9. April 2014 at 18:17:02 Share
Martyn Fox Thinking a Panzer 1 in 1/35?
9. April 2014 at 18:23:33
Mike Goldberg That works.
10. April 2014 at 05:56:10
Add comment »
Martyn Fox Count me in,I'll give it a bash. Not sure what to build yet. I'm going to another show on 12 April,so might see what offers the traders have :)
9. April 2014 at 18:19:42 Share
Wim van der Luijt is attending
5. April 2014 at 16:44:31 Share
5. April 2014 at 16:45:31
Hunter Cummins You will go crazy with those tracks lol ;)
9. April 2014 at 00:00:38
Fabian D. well... that can be done in 1:72... so 1:48 should be slightly esaier ;)
wettringer-modellbauforum.de..ge=Thread&threadID=50657
9. April 2014 at 00:22:52
Add comment »
Hunter Cummins is attending
3. April 2014 at 23:02:25 Share
Mike Goldberg is attending
3. April 2014 at 22:42:42 Share

 

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