Team Lotus Type 72D Ronnie Peterson

Dirk Heyer
I will stay tuned!
When will you start this amazing project?
Can`t wait...
🙂 🙂

Peter Jenssen
Already started a bit on the engine.
It's not much but I started a photoalbum anyway.. 🙂

Peter Jenssen
35 years since Ronnie's fatal crash today..

John Thomas
Very nice F1 car. Hope to do mine some day

Clifford Keesler
Nice Car.

Steve Wilson
Coming together nicely Peter👍

Peter Jenssen
Ran into some problems.. What to do?
There are not enough JPS logos on the Tabu Design decal sheet..
Obviously an error.. Does anyone know their contact details? Can only find resellers on the searches I have done.

There are six JPS logotypes, eight are needed:
Three large ones (one for each side of the car and one for the wing)
One medium sized one for between the front disk brake air intakes
And then there are only two small ones,

I need one for each front wing and one for each side of the engine air intake!

🙁
Not happy..

Steve Wilson
Hi Peter...
I found these: bestbalsakits.com/ta..il.asp?kitnumber=145 if they are of use to you. There are these but sold out, but soon back in stock:
bestbalsakits.com/ta..il.asp?kitnumber=738
Here is whole page: bestbalsakits.com/tamiya/tamiya.asp?sort=8

Peter Jenssen
Thanks Steve.
I'll think I'll hold off on purchasing an additional decal sheet until I have successfully applied the clear coat on the model.
Just in case of the worst that could mean that I'd need a full set of decals. :-/
Just found an old trashed half built 1/12 Lotus kit on ebay for $5 with JPS decal sheet still intact.
Spare parts and decals in one..?
Tamiya original JPS decals might be a bit old maybe..??

Steve Wilson
Oh! yeah!...
Go for it, excellent😢

Peter Jenssen
Question:
Would it make sense to leave the number decals until after applying the clear coat?

Steve Wilson
Hmmmm!!! could do...
But why??? what would it achieve??? More chance of flaking off in time!!!

Steve Wilson
If you want the satin sheen on the numbers...
Apply decals in the normal way, then seal them with a clear coat with all other decals...
Then mask around the numbers and spray a satin finish clear coat just on roundels.

Peter Jenssen
Ah, ok! Good point.
Thanks Steve. -Neat idea.
Just wondering if it's worth it/noticeable to simulate that the numbers are stickers...
It would only be the number that would be a sticker, right?
Or is it the whole roundel??

Steve Wilson
It's the whole roundel Peter😢

Steve Wilson
QUOTE: Just wondering if it's worth it/noticeable to simulate that the numbers are stickers. END QUOTE.
I think it's worth it, it's that little extra detail some wouldn't do or even think of.
It's a form of signature setting your build apart from others👍

Guy Golsteyn
This is such a big discussion subject and I have been defending both points of view. In reality, race car liveries are not painted nor clear coated. Everything consists of stickers, mostly highly glossy stickers though. But if you study a racecar closely you will see that the body has been spraypainted and clearcoated before the stickers were fixed. So if you want to build a realistic looking racecar, you should do the same in scale: paint the model and clearcoat it; then fix the decals (not just the roundels but everything). The model will look perfect for a few years, and then the decals will start to faint or even bladder off or change color. If you want to avoid this, you have to paint the model, fix the decals and then clearcoat it. This will look a lot better in most people's eyes, but it is a little less realistic. Most contest jury's don't know this though and they will always reward a shiny model more than a (maybe realistic looking) model with semigloss decals. But the big advantage of clearcoating your decals is that your model will look as good as new even after decades! So the choice is yours... I have been defending the first point of view for 20 years, but I have changed my mind when I saw how my 20 year old models look...

Steve Wilson
@Guy...
I agree totally, with everything you say...
But in my defence though, modelling (to me) is about fooling the eye, tricking it into believing what doesn't really exist. Too make them (the decals) look like stickers, there are probably 100's more different ways to achieve the same effect. My way, not necessarily the best way, is just one method.
I wouldn't dream of arguing with you on your points raised, but short of making our own scale stickers, we have to make do with what we got in the box.
As for the Judges at contests, I've always thought it was unfair having (no disrespect to my fellow Military mates on Scalmates) Military builders Judging Automobile entries, there should be a range of judges one from each genre/category of model building, judging together on each and every category...
May the Force be with you Guy👍

Peter Jenssen
I know this may not be a good example, -the car in this picture may be wet as it seems to be raining..
This is Emersons car in 1972.
hyde1841.blogspot.co..di-and-lotus-72.html
Has roundels even though the numbers have not been applied yet.
On any of the pictures I have seen, I have not been able to actually make out any sticker outlines or change in glossiness, so I'm a bit wary of exaggerating a barely noticeable effect.

Peter Jenssen
Hmm;
And this too: [img1]
Though I'm a bit wary of going by pictures of restored cars..

-Anyone have a picture where you can see the effect of the stickers?

Steve Wilson
Peter!!!
Go the way you feel better with, at the end of the day, it's your decision.
We out here in internet World, can only pass on to you our opinions... especially when asked.
You are the builder, go with your gut feelings.

Peter Jenssen
Just trying to gather opinions and information in order to make up my mind. 🙂 :-D
Nothing like a good debate for that.
As Socrates would have said, a good debate is one that never ends.. 😉

Guy Golsteyn
I have some pictures proving my point like this one:

[img1]

But I have been working as a photographer in various raceteams and I can assure you that no livery what so ever has been painted in real life, they always use stickers. I have seen a white porsche that needed to be dark blue (without sponsors that is) and they didn't spray it over, but they used self-adhesive sheets to cover the entire car. Also, the world of sponsoring is way to unpredictable to spray logo's or sponsors; before you know it they stop sponsoring and then you need to be able to remove the sticker fast 😉

Steve Wilson
As Guy said in reality, teams use stickers...
But in our kits we have decals, so in placing our decals we need to give the appearance of stickers...
Or make scale stickers, is possible using decal sheet as plan, but why when you have the decals!!!😮
In some of my builds I have sprayed the model then placed the decals. Here is the dilemma...
I have left it uncleared, but in time it needs repair coz! the decals lift and flake and appearance of model dulls, fades...
So do we now seal the decals with a clear coat, taking away the sticker effect? or.
Spray, place decals, clear coat then mask around decal and spray a satin even matt clear coat??? Too me this works...
But as said it's your model, it's what you're happy with.

John Coverley
According to the Haynes Lotus 72 owners workshop manual, in 1973 the John Player Special sign was hand painted by sign writers. One of these original sign writers is still used by Classic Team Lotus.
There were three 3 different types of gold used-for the John Player Special sign, the vinyl sponsors' logos and the paint on the roundels and mirrors. As for what shades they were, well........

Peter Jenssen
Thanks Guy.
That's an interesting closeup! There is even visible flaking.
Is this original or restored?
Some sources in car restoration say not to put vinyl on vintage racecars. I don't know what's meant by vintage here though.. I think the discussion was regarding 50s NASCAR.
Not 70s F1..
I'll probably end up putting a clear top coat over the lot anyway. If not for other reasons, to make sure they don't flake. Perhaps go with Steve's idea and put masking around the roundels and give the stickers their own coat afterwards.

Peter Jenssen
Got the old Tamiya decal set from eBay, see if they still work.. (fingers crossed)
Seems I also now have a nearly complete second Tamiya Lotus set (sans tires, -they're rotted), plus a Tamiya 1:20 pit team.
All half built and in bad shape, but then again for $5, -Can't complain..
Ready to complete the decalling.. 🙂

Peter Jenssen
What John says seem to add up with what a friend of mine was saying regarding F1 livery.
Apparently the main sponsors livery is still painted, these days with special formula one paint that is low drag and low weight.
It is apparently against regulations to change livery during a season.
However, these days the car is despite that usually stripped back to bare carbon after each race(!) and repainted..
From what my friend said, only secondary sponsor markings are usually vinyl, livery - painted.
-Confirmation? -Refutal?

Guy Golsteyn
My experience comes from endurance racing and rally sport, so maybe in F1 they work differently.

Peter Jenssen
Thanks Guy.
That's very interesting.
Now I'm paying attention to things I never noticed before.
Walked past a row of tourist buses yesterday at lunchbreak.
Couldn't help taking notice that only 20% had painted decorations, the rest were covered in vinyl. Completely covered.
A very distinct difference in style, Computer generated graphical artist style vs signpainting style (solid colours/basic spraypaint fades)..