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C Marques de Sá (markit)
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Su-22 Academy

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3. July 2017, 02:52
 
3. July 2017, 07:07
C Marques de Sá
thanks. I have dificulties, mostly in painting, with masking (does not come right), painting white missiles (always wrong), applying varnish (not always but most of the time), airbrushing in general. I have watched many videos, and read etc., but still have the problems, still I think practice will make it better. Maybe you have advice or can direct to a forum for advice?
4. July 2017, 00:52
Bart Goesaert
what is the problem with the airbrush? And what kind of paint do you use?
Before I paint on my model I take an empty bottle or can and spray on that, so that I have an idea how the paint will come on the model. If it isn't right there, it sure won't be on the model. Don't take paper, because it absorbs the paint. Then you can try with extra thinning, playing with the pressure till you are satisfied. Only then I go to my model...
4. July 2017, 06:28
Spanjaard
good advise Bart, i will remember that.
C marques, do you use primer? did the problems start recently? humidity and temperature can be sometimes an issue. i tend to use very thin layers rather than thick ones. what airbrush are you using?
4. July 2017, 06:36
Alexander G.
Hey Marques, the answer to all your questions and problems is: practice, practice, practice. All of them. Try different colours, different varnishes, different pressures, add more or less thinner, different masking techniques. This is a trial and error approach and we all learned it that way. Do it and you will realize you are getting better with every model you build. cheers Alex
4. July 2017, 10:20
Spanjaard
Different paints too, some may work for you better than others. I had really good results with Vallejo black primer while some people say it does not work at all . Some people are crazy about Mr surfacer, and for me, it was simply not sticking to the plastic.....
4. July 2017, 11:34
Spanjaard
But Alexander is right, practice, practice practice.... :) take some old model and try all kind of stuff there
4. July 2017, 11:36
Łukasz Gliński
Fully agree with all above, just one hint from me: what you have on your kit is Hungarian post-1990 roundel.
4. July 2017, 11:42
Alexander G.
Some little advice i can give:
-use a flat/flat-semogloss varnish/clearcote. The smaller the scale the "flatter" it has to be. Even if the color is glossy on the original airplane. Ads to realism and does not look like a toy.
-Buy better quality kits, all the 1:144 kits you built are pretty old and of questionable quality. I built some of these myself (Revells Mig-29,31 Su-27, Hobbycraft MiG-25) You need a massive amount of work to make them look presentable and close to the original. The details are too thick, the fitting is poor etc. It will always look loke a toy. Try a good modern 1:72 kit with new moulding (yers 2000-), not the old flimsy 1:144 toys and you will see the improvement and it will boost your confidence!

cheers, Alex
4. July 2017, 14:22
C Marques de Sá
Hello Spanjaard, Bart, Alexander and Lukasz,
Thank you all for your replies, comments, sugestions and advices.
Let me try to reply to you as briefly and as thoroughly as I can, so I can explain and give more detail. Some things are in general other regard specific comments.
I will start to say that this model was painted by hand with normal brushes (maybe it was primed with the airbrush, I don't remember. My airbrush I think has no problems, although it's a cheap one. Maybe the worst is my compressor, which is also a cheap one and has only 3 modes, high, medium and low and I don't know to what pressure these correspond. I use many different paints, as I have no complete set of any of the brands. I use model air, model color, humbrol acrylics, revell aquacolor, and even sometimes acrilex. This model was painted mostly by hand with mostly revell aquacolor from what I remember. One of my main problems is painting white, even if I prime, by airbrush or normal brush using whichever brand, it never comes right (missiles are an example). Thank you Bart for your advice to paint first in a hard object; I used to paint first but in a paper, and think your method is better and will do that next time. Thining the paint for it to work with the airbrush is also a dificulty, but I think I am starting to do it a little better. I always use primer, even once I used only primer because I did not have the apropriate colour and the colour of primer was perfect. But I do always prime, and that usually is not a problem. Usually the coat of primer is perfect... Its the following coats were the accidents happen... I live in northeastern Brazil, so high temperatures and lots of humidity is the norm, what would that do for my airbrushing? I don't know. I agree with Alexander that practice will make it better and I feel some small improvement from time to time, but I can't help thinking, from watching the hobby for some years, that some people are naturally more artistic and have a very much easier time with painting then others (me); for me building is usually easy... the dificult part is painting. I am aiming to buy more vallejo model air and more tamiya paints, although I am not giving up on revell and humbrol enamels. Alexander - what do you think about maskol and which other different masking techniques do you sugest? I am making models since I was about ten, but with very big intervals in between... and I feel I have not progressed that much since the nineties... :) maybe I'm being pessimist. It has been dificult to keep doing the hobby regularly with so many changes from country and homes. I like vallejo, but not all of them. I had very good results with model air, and good to ok with model color. I never used mr surfacer - could never find it in a shop and it's expensive and had other options to buy. When I pick an old model I finish it. I do not use a model just for practice, or maybe I could say that all my models are for practice. I like the models I build. They are cheap so I am not sad to ruin them with my paintings... I have other better quality models which I am saving for when I am better.... some day. But I understand what you mean Alexander, and I will surely start venturing more into 1:72 scale and better models and abandoning 1:144. I hope you are right in saying that it will boost my confidence. I am now building a very old YAK-3 from airfix and another very old MIG-15UTI from KP both in 1:72. My problems with varnish are that I like to use satin finish but the humbrol satin cote many times (not always) turns white.... So sometimes (as in this model) I use something similar to pledge, a floor polish bought at the supermarket called brilho fácil. I am not sure yet which gloss cote to use vallejo, humbrol or the floor stuff. If I use flat cote it always comes white - what is the problem? How can I fix it?
Lukasz - thank you for getting my attention to that detail. I wanted to do a 1970-1980's Hungarian SU-22, but the academy kit had no explanations about time period and the decals were sh... I tried to look in the internet and thaught it was the correct roundel, but apparently I got it wrong. If you have the time send me links to pages about Hungarian Air Force in the Warsaw Pact era.
sorry for the very extensive reply...
THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO ALL!
5. July 2017, 01:14
Alexander G.
Haha, that's quite a novel you worte there :D

OK, first your brush paint job looks really good!

-Concerning the primer, you do not need necessarily one! If you did not use putty or had some massive scratch building going on you are good to go without it. Just make sure the surface of the model is 1. abradet/roughened (not too smooth) i personally use Mirka Mirlon Ultrafine pads. You also can use fine sanding paper, but with these pads you get better into the corners 2. de-greased (very important!) while building fat ant sweat fom your fingers (nothing personal, it is human nature! :P) accumulates on the surface, it is deadly for paint adhesion. You can use plain alcohol or anti silicone degreaser.
-IF you use a primer make sure you use colours of the same brand/same composition! It may happen that when you use a water based/acrylic primer and then paint with enamel paint the paint wil dissolve/attack the primer and the surface will go all wrinkly. Same goes for painting colurs. Don't go with enamel/laquer over acrylic/water based! It can go right, but it can also go horribly wrong. Other way round is mostly not that problematic.
-I think i know your "painting white" problem, i remember the missles looking like shit when i hand painted them with revell 05 :D. I dont paintbrush white anymore, just very small details. Use an airbrush and make several thin coats. If you have a double action airbrush, go close on the part...and spray it very thin, almost a dry mist, if it is getting wet blow just air until it dries then go on with the white mist until you get the "whiteness" you desire. Vallejo model air is the brand of choice in this case.
-You listed several paint brands and qualities you use. They have very different properties and behave very differently! It can become confusing especially for a beginner. Try to focus on a specific brand of paints, learn how they work and behave in your climatic conditions and figure out which works for you the best. Also what i learned: different paints are good for different puposes. In my case it is: Tamiya for airbrushing big surfaces, there is just nothing better IMHO. Vallejo model air for airbrushing small stuff (cockpits, missles, wheels etc), Revell enamels for drybrushing and painting details.
-Maskol: I personally use it VERY rarely. Mostly for the canopy on airplanes. Sharp edges with masking tape, the unmasked surface with Maskol. Sometimes the inner side of the canopy too. Really, it depends what you want to do with it. I wouldn't use it for camouflage patterns on airplanes, because the paint edges tend to become cracked and unclean if you pull it off. Besides it is just a big mess. Masking in general, for soft and curvy camouflage patterns (like on russian planes i recommend the "blu tack" masking technique. You'll find some tutorials on youtube. For straight patterns you use masking tape.
-Clearcote: I prefer enamel clearcotes myself. Revell, Humbrol, Model Master. If it goes white you make it MUCH too thick. Rule of thumb with the finishing clear cote: Dilute it a bit more and apply it VERY thin. I mean you spray just a thin mist from a distance and watch the model go flat gradually until you get the result you desire. Make a flat/semigloss mixture as the finishing coat on your airplanes, it looks great. FUTURE/floor shine is great before applying decals, but not as the finishing coat! it is too glossy.

Ok Marques, now I wrote quite a novel. I hope I could help. Again, those old KP kits are not really what you are looking for as a beginner. They are good for practice i guess..

cheers, Alex
5. July 2017, 12:03
Bart Goesaert
Don't abandon 1/144, even these old kits van be gems. I've made the same su-22: SU-22 FITTER academy | Project by Silenoz (1:144)
Still need you finish the paint, but... There are also more models like this. I mean, not all 1/144 kits are toyish...
10. July 2017, 07:13
C Marques de Sá
Hello Alexander, Thank you! Last missiles I was painting I was using airbrush. After the 5th coat I gave up and used paintbrush... Maybe I did wrong but I was getting frustrated... I was using revell, will try with vallejo m.a. as soon as possible. I have tried enamel clearcotes and had bad results, it turned yellow.. If the problem is thickness (and I think you are correct) I will have to be carefull next time to spray little. I think that is why some models were ok and other not, I get carried away... Do you have a sugestion for a brand of clearcote? Vallejo or humbrol? Or do you only use enamel? Thanks for the advice on flat/semigloss mixture, I will try that.
11. July 2017, 05:05
C Marques de Sá
Hello Bart! Your Su-22 looks much better than mine. You even make a canopy. I still have 6 1:144 models in my stash. From those only 3 are from models I have previously not done, the SU-25, SU-37 and Vostok (but that is different). I will be making the SU-25 soon... maybe september. I will look on for a couple more 1:144, namely MiG-21, MiG-31, Su-27, but after those probably no more. I will make more 1:72 and try 1:48 maybe next year. Thank you for your comment!
11. July 2017, 05:13
Łukasz Gliński
What I could recommend on missiles, undercarriage and other small, but detailed white things is to use the white primer beforehand. I 1/72 it usually helps, however I have no clue what the result will be in 1/144
11. July 2017, 06:12
C Marques de Sá
Thanks Lukasz, I think it will work as good in 1:144 as in 1:72
11. July 2017, 21:28

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