The Neglected Kit Resurrection Groupbuild

John Van Kooten
I have done some more digging in my reference books and have found some additional and interesting information regarding the Jagdtiger Porsche Production models!

There actually were Porsche types engaged in combat that didn't have zimmerit! There's photographic evidence as well. See images below.

The ones without zimmerit are well documented. The most prominent is Jagdtiger #305012 with tactical number 314. Jagdtiger Porsche #305011 (#11) and #305012 (#12) were initially training vehicles but were later assigned to Schwere Panzerjäger-Abteilung 653 (de.wikipedia.org/wik..%A4ger-Abteilung_653). sPzJgAbt 653 had a total of 7 Jagdtiger Porsche Production.

As said, #12 was assigned the tactical number of 314 and engaged in battle against US forces on the 14th of March, 1945 in the Laubach-Greisbach area. The 3rd company of sPzJgAbt 653 fired at a column of US armored vehicles from long ranges, up to 4km away, and took out a number of them, before they had to retreat due to US heavy artillery fire.

#314 was lost a couple of days later due to transmission failure as a result of driving into a ditch, trying to avoid being hit by rockets fired from attacking P-47 Thunderbolts. At that point it was abandoned by its crew.

So, that means you can now build a Jagdtiger Porsche Production WITHOUT zimmerit engaged in combat on the Western Theater without feeling guilty of misrepresenting historical facts 😄 😉

Source (book): The Combat History of German Heavy Anti-Tank Unit 653 in World War II, published by Stackpole Books (2005)

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Choppa Nutta
I love these little anecdotal stories, the zimmerit looks like a right faff plus I am not that enamored with the way it looks either, I prefer the metal look 🙂
And nice to see a little progress on your first TNKR project ! 😄
Peter Jenssen has finished his one already 🙂

Hunter Cummins
Yaaaaaaaaaaay now mine diesnt have to be abandoned 🙂 😄

Urban Gardini
But isn't all Dragon Jagdtigers with the crew spiked gun?

John Van Kooten
@Hunter: Exactly! 😄 👍

It puts an end to what most people assumed to be fact, that all Porsche types, or at least the ones engaged in combat, had zimmerit. They didn't 👍
A lot of so called 'experten' think they know 😉 but more often than not it's merely from hearsay and without doing their own research.

There was in fact on more Jagdtiger Porsche without zimmerit. It's #305001 (#1). It was the first model manufactured, for trials, hence it didn't receive zimmerit. After the trials were over it was reassigned to also be used as a training vehicle.
The faith of that Jagdtiger is unknown. Although it was heavily modified at some point (see images), so could that mean it was being prepared for getting reassigned to a combat unit? Nobody knows unfortunately.

In the images you can clearly see in the first one that the Jagdtiger is void of ANY attachments or other unnecessary accessories. Obviously because it was initially meant to be used for trials only (it had already past the prototype stages).
In the second image you can see the same Jagdtiger fully equipped (the chassis number is visible and readable on the front of the hull). It has had it's sprockets changed. It received a 9-tooth sprocket as opposed to the Porsche designed 18 tooth sprocket it had in its earlier stages. It also received transport tracks, instead of combat tracks and it was equipped to be a Command vehicle.

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John Van Kooten
@Urban: I'm not sure what you mean?

Urban Gardini
The one at Aberdeen earlier that Dragon meassured have a spiked gun. The crew cut the oil lines to the recuperator and fired of a round before abandon it. Thus jammin' the gun in it's recoiled position. Dragon moulded it after that n' that later carried over to their other Jagdtigers as well.

John Van Kooten
@Choppa: Yeah, interesting stuff, right?! 🙂 👍 I also prefer the bare metal look, a LOT! 😄

And I'm afraid I'm not going to be as quick as Peter 😉 haha! This particular model has a few issues that need taking care off. Like the front of the lower hull, which is actually the INCORRECT lower hull for this model. I have 4 Jagdtiger Porsche kits and THREE of them have the lower hull of the Porsche version WITH zimmerit 🙁 The latter needs a piece inserted which contains the zimmerit but obviously this is not available in the kit without zimmerit... so I need to create the insert with plastic card and also obviously somehow recreate the indentations/grooves for where the metal plating connects. I have logged a call with Dragon Care about it (on January 1st, 2014) but it seems they don't... care.

Gábor Bélik
A kimd Word of advice. If you put the sideskirts on you Will have pronlems fitting the tracks. 🙂

John Van Kooten
@Urban: aaaah, you mean that 🙂 👍

Yes, the Dragon kits have the barrel in the correct length but indeed it sits a little bit too far back if pushed all the way in. But that's very easily corrected by simply NOT pushing the barrel all the way in😉 Like how I have done with my kit (see images in album).

I guess it's a matter of researching your subject a little bit before you start building😉

But good point to make a note of here, Urban! Thanks! 👍

Choppa Nutta
nice to see the research photos too 🙂
I suspect that Dragon have already made the commitment to a set of molds and that to correct them now would be expensive, I'm guessing 🙂
Btw it aint a race but I thought I would do a post up of Petes model as it kind of urges the rest of us on a little etc. My harrier draws ever closer to conclusion 🙂

John Van Kooten
@Gábor: Absolutely! It would be quite a nasty job to get the tracks on if the side skirts are already glued in place 😄 Personally I use Micro Scale's 'Micro Liquitape'. It allows you to temporarily glue stuff together. Works great, especially in cases like this 👍

Good tip, Gábor! Thanks! 👍

John Van Kooten
@Choppa: Haha! No, I couldn't even do competition or races, even if I wanted to😉 Unfortunately between work and every day Life I don't have a lot of time to spend on my hobby. So progress will always be slow. But that's not a problem for me. I like to take my time, this being a hobby and all 🙂

And yeah, you are doing very well with your kit! 👍 😄

Mike Kryza
I'm in!

John Van Kooten
Thanks Mike! 👍 🙂

For those interested, I am always making notes of and documenting issues with the instructions while I'm building. I turn them into amendments which I add to my kits (of the same type of course). Maybe they'll be of use to others as well 👍

Here's the first amendment for this Dragon Jagdtiger Porsche kit #6351 concerning step 1 and 2 of the instructions, the suspension: johnvk.com/scalemate..rors_-_Revisions.pdf

Choppa Nutta
cheers John, hopefully today is the final day on it 🙂
anyhow, slow progress is better than no progress 😄

Jan Hazes
Well there's slow. And then there is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwww 🙂 I got this kit. What's holding me back are the Fruil track which I bought for ease of construction and use. Boy was that a deception S)

Holger Kranich
Oh, i´m definately in here!!!

Jan Hazes
You'll be here for a long time I'm afraid😉

John Van Kooten
Hahaha! Yeah, slow is where it's at with me😉 my current job often prevents me from spending long stretches of time on my hobbies and honestly, if I must choose, I'd rather spend time with friends and family instead of with my plastic models 🙂

Having said that, I have actually dusted this one off and I am preparing to start working on it again.

I also have a set of Friuls for this track (ATL-22) but I will be using the plastic tracks included in the kit for this one. The included plastic track may look like horrendous (5 pieces for each track link section, including some really small ones) but actually it isn't so bad 🙂 I use Tamiya Extra Thin (green cap) to glue lengths of up to 10 track links, let them dry for a bit (few minutes, while doing another set of links), then connect & glue the length pieces and finally, bend the resulting track into shape where needed. Jagdtiger tracks are fairly straightforward in that there are no support wheels and therefor no "complex" track sagging is required. Works like a treat and doesn't involve many hours of track link building 👍

Anyway, hopefully I can do quite a bit of work on this one during the weekend 🙂

Matthias Weiss
Looks like an interesting project, John.

John Van Kooten
Thanks Matthias 👍

It's a great kit. It does suffer from some fit issues but nothing that can't be dealt with.

The biggest problem I have is that the hull tub included in this kit is the wrong one (see photo 5). It was the one for the Jagdtiger WITH zimmerit... which I obviously don't have... three of my four Jagdtiger kits have this problem!
The request I sent to Dragon Care asking them to replace the hull tubs and/or send me new ones went unanswered (call was logged on January 1st, 2014!! And still no answer). I also contacted the Dutch distributor but they also said there was nothing they could do for me... so that was great 🙁

Anyway, I have started correcting the problem myself by using plastic card, basically scratching the front plate for the hull tub. So hopefully that'll work out. If it looks bad I guess I can camouflage it a bit with mud😉

Matthias Weiss
3 kits with the same problem - guess it's the same hull on all of them. Sharing the molds and the mistakes... 🙂
So how are you going to correct the mistakes? Can you change tub?

Well, a while ago I contacted Meng Model for an idea and Takom as well but both did not reply, seem's to be normal in that industry. As I mentioned once, I wish they had community managers like every online game has.
Someone we could talk to and that take our ideas and advices...

John Van Kooten
Dragon added the wrong hull tub (which is a slide molded single piece in the box) of the other zimmerited Jagdtiger kit, so I think it was a problem in the packaging department.

I'm taking a piece of plastic card and basically try to shape it so that I can glue it into place. Fortunately the opening (where the zimmerited part in the other kit would go) is not so complicated. The only thing I think I'm going to have a hard time with is adding in the detail of the welds / cut armor plate.

Yeah, it would definitely be nice if they'd listen to their customer base, or at the very least pick up on common issues discussed in well known forums with an established reputation. But unfortunately with some manufacturers that is never going to happen.
MiniArt is one of the exceptions, by the way! They have picked up on complaints from their customers and read discussions about their kits and they have taken action. The discussed issues concerned the plastics they used to manufacture their kits. It was too brittle in some cases, leading to broken parts and hard to build kits (I have never had a problem with MiniArt kits though, so I wouldn't really know the exact ins and outs of this specific issue). So they actually worked to solve that problem based on feedback.

They also respond well to support requests!

I must say, I have the highest possible respect for them(!!) because we have to remember their country is literally at war (Ukraine) and they actually had to physically move their operations!

Here's their official statement (as posted on Armorama): armorama.com/modules..id=238114&page=1

Matthias Weiss
Seriously, that is a superb attitude!
I'd tip my hat now if I had one.
Time to get another MiniArt kit.

John Van Kooten
Totally agree! If nothing else, I'd say they deserve our support just for that. They definitely have mine 👍

Jan Hazes
Hmmm, i'll have to check if my kit has the right tub. I've recently built a minicraft kit and wasn't too impressed with the quality ofvthe plastic. Indeed brittle and a lot of broken parts.
🙁

Jan Hazes
Phew. Mine has the right tub 🙂

John Van Kooten
Lucky you!😉

I will be rebooting this project tonight, when I'm home 🙂