Alec K
Looking forward to this 👍

Andy Ball
oh my!, was thinking of this one next, but went for the Trumpeter Tu-128...may join you on the build in the next week....

Cuajete
Following.

Palo M
Careful with the weights, it does need a bit, otherwise it sits on its tail. There is a barrel for that, just in case, though I managed to lose mine.

Thomas Kolb
Palo, yes, thanks for the tip! Yes, the barrel to prop up the rear is pretty silly if you ask me, although still better than having the aircraft sit on its tail, nose gear up in the air. I have one or two of those already...

Andy Ball
Is there any lead-like-weighted putty on the market that can be used to pack in around all these tight spaces?

Thomas Kolb
Andy, I saw that there is something like that in some online fishing stores, but I haven't tried it myself. It is also quite expensive, in the area of 8-10 EU/GBP for 15 grams.

anglingdirect.co.uk/..-critical-mass-putty

Juergen Klinglhuber
this one works fine - also not cheap but helpful.....valiant-wings.co.uk/..ose-weight-716-p.asp

Andy Ball
top tips, gentlemen, I will check the 2 sources out....

Bernhard Pethe
I'm also currently on the MiG-17F. There is still plenty of room for weights under the cockpit.
flugzeugforum.de/thr..eltisch.94895/page-4

Łukasz Gliński
Can't miss this one. Sounds like a groupbuild starting...

Thomas Kolb
Juergen, thanks a bunch for the tip, I just ordered a package of the Three-Green nose weight putty directly from Uschi - that should do the trick!

Andy Ball
darn it...it's out of stock at ValWings- ah, try Uschi direct!!

Chaz Gordon
Any weight forward of the main landing gear will help, I use lead tape for golf clubs, the advantage is you can stick it in all kinds of places. One place that would work is inside the wings ahead of the main gear, lots of room for weight in there, assuming the gear can take it.

Thomas Kolb
Chaz, thanks for the tip! I ordered this "nose weight putty" from Uschi van der Rosten and will hopefully get it in a week. I will let you know how it goes.

Cuajete
Thomas, the cockpit looks so good.

@Chaz Gordon... This is the lead tape for golf clubs?
amazon.es/Sport-Stic..-tenis/dp/B01E8SEWDK

Chaz Gordon
That's the stuff, I get it on ebay, a bit of searching gets a good price on it. what I like is you can stick it and form it around the inside of fuselages and any hidden cavity. it cuts easily with scissors so it can be used anywhere there is a couple of mm gap.

Łukasz Gliński
That's a great tip, thanks mates 👍

Thomas Kolb
Yesterday I "soft-assembled" the model with tape just to see that it is standing properly on its feet, and, well, it does, but it sure as heck needs all the nose weight you can cram in in every tiny nook! I also performed the needed plastic surgery on the wings and built the assembly for the extended photo-etched flaps. Not as difficult as I thought it would be, however, without a proper bending jig it would be more or less impossible.

Andy Ball
Thomas: do you have an approximate weight that will be needed?

Thomas Kolb
@Andy, the instructions state 20 grams in the nose compartment, but I was unable to fit in that much, my fishing weights have lower density. I didn't want to wait for the Uschi nose weight putty, so instead I added flattened fishing weights to the outer sides of the cockpit, under the cockpit assembly, and also behind the cockpit rear wall. Maybe 25-30 grams altogether? But a lot of it is pretty close to the pivot point.

Cuajete
Very nice extended photo-etched flaps.

Thomas Kolb
Wings attached, with some gaps, but nothing too bad. I struggled a bit with the bottom part of the nose with the guns and the way it fits the nose ring - filling and some sanding was required. I am not sure why Airfix engineered it such a strange way, unless it is to have an option to produce the PF version later?

Łukasz Gliński
Who knows? Are you going to take pics of both of your Frescos once this one is completed?

Ricardo Reis
Looks really nice. Following!

Thomas Kolb
@Łukasz, I think the PF version looks cool with its radar nose, so if Airfix ever decides to produce it, I will definitely buy at least two! BTW, the difference between the Mistercraft and the Airfix tooling is enormous - in comparison, the Mistercraft looks like it is carved of soap.
@Ricardo, thank you, please do! I checked in your gallery, wow, you are really skilled!

Łukasz Gliński
I know 😄 that's why I want to see them together 🙂
And remember, the soapy one is the reason you landed here😉

Thomas Kolb
Łukasz, yep, and thanks to you mate!

Thomas Kolb
Got the weight putty in the mail from Uschi today... two small, heavy plastic jars containing some sort of lead powder mixed in oil. Not sure how this thing is supposed to be used, perhaps you can fill a closed up nose cone or something with it? Hm, nah, it's not really what I needed... if you want it, you can have it for free, just let me know, or I will take it to the local recycling station in a few weeks.

Chaz Gordon
Maybe it hardens when exposed to air? Perhaps fill a small cup shaped part and leave it overnight, see what happens

Thomas Kolb
@Chaz, it is possible, although it smells like heavy machine oil, so probably not very volatile. But worth trying I guess. I'll let you know.

Chaz Gordon
looking the stuff up, it almost looks like the oil may be just a shield medium, is there a block of putty under that maybe? or perhaps it needs mixing? the reviews are all short and lack a How to, but IU get the definite impression the "liquid" dries after air exposure

Thomas Kolb
No, I tried mixing it but it is really just a fine metal powder mixed with what looks and smells like machine oil. It has a consistency of slush and is very crumbly, so you definitely cannot shape it like putty. You need to use something like a palette knife to scoop up and fill a small container, which you can then possibly cement into the model: but you definitely cannot just attach the stuff to the inner fuselage side of a model for instance (which I was hoping).

Ricardo Reis
I usually use Liquid Gravity and it works fine; does it (maybe) dry when left in the open air?

Urban Gardini
Use tungsten putty instead. You'll find it at your nearest well sorted sport fishing store.

Slavo Hazucha
Joining, the job on the flaps looks very nice - really a good detail addition to the little MiG! 👍

Thomas Kolb
@Urban, yes, I think I will give it a try, although it is super expensive stuff...
@Slavo, thank you, yes, I think so too, anything to break up the chimney-pipe (or as the pilots used to say 'труба печи') appearance of the Fresco is probably a good thing! 🙂

Urban Gardini
Yes, tungsten putty is quite expensive but well worth it in hard cases with extreme tail sitters...

Rene Scheiblich
I could fix you up with a teaspoon of tungsten chips, all about 1mm in size. Used them with PVA glue to get the butt of my 262 up. 🙂

Urban Gardini
Another source is to get hold of cemented carbide that is used when they make cutting tools for the metal industry. If you know anyone that works as an CNC operator in the metal industry you could talk with him/her and ask for cutting tool waste. The cutting tools exist in various forms. I've got some here as well as I've been thinking about testing how to safely crack and crush them so I can use the tungsten carbide that they consists of. But first I need to clean the cutting tools from the coolant oil and production grime. One idea is to use an old not very good cast iron mortar that I've got, a couple of cutting tools, cover up the top and use a hammer on the pestle. A bit much work but low cost if it works.

Andy Ball
UK price is £7.99 for a tin (approx. EUR/USD 8.50) from Angler Direct....doesn't look that dear to me?....

Urban Gardini
Last time I bought one it costed 99 SEK here in Sweden but that's 3-4 years ago.

Urban Gardini
But, a BIG BUT!!! It's worth the price...

Cuajete
This one is most cheaper that I can find:

es.aliexpress.com/it..02_,searchweb201603_

If not used, will this putty harden over time, even if it is well preserved?

Urban Gardini
Yes but you can make it softer again with the heat from your hands/fingers kneading the stuff. But it'll take a lot of love...

Cuajete
OK, thanks! 😄 👍

Thomas Kolb
Andy & Urban, it costs like 89 SEK (like £7,80) for 20 grams. Thats about enough weight for one Airfix MiG-17.

Urban Gardini
Nice!

Chaz Gordon
The tungsten putty is £2.86 for 24g on ebay, but Liquid Gravity is £10 for 240g on Amazon, the shot size looks tiny, so virtually no space wastage, but just enough to secure with PVA, CA or Epoxy. Personally, I'd layer it with some cheap liquid CA, then when dried, cap the compartment with Araldite Standard. For larger applications, Lead BB shot is £10 for 500g on Amazon.

Chaz Gordon
Just one other thought, if 24g of weighting costs £3, a 1p coin Weighs 3.56g, a 1 Euro Cent Coin weighs 2.3g. Generally speaking, the cheapest weight money can buy is Money. I have known a lot of people who just drill out 1p & 2p Coins to use as washers because they are cheaper and better quality than actual washers.

Petri Manninen
Looks very nice, will be following this one 🙂

Urban Gardini
Chaz, it's not the cost that is sought after here but as much weight as possible for a tiny area and Liquid Gravity (which is an excellent product) is inferior to tungsten putty in this case.

Łukasz Gliński
To be honest, the cheaper option is using the fishing lead and big pliers 🙂 The lead is quite soft - ok, not as a putty, hence the pliers are necessary, the longer the better😉

Thomas Kolb
Łukasz, yes, flattened fishing weights is what I am doing most of the time. But the Airfix Fresco is surprisingly difficult to weigh down. The instruction suggests 20 grams - that's an awful lot of weights in such a small model! Airfix actually provides a small barrel on the fret to use as support under the back of the fuselage in case you fail. I think I managed it though, let's just hope that the landing gears don't collapse.

Łukasz Gliński
Hah, they do provide a barrel, I didn't spot it earlier 😄

Chaz Gordon
Well, I never expected Tungsten would be so dense. It does seem that unless you splash out on Platinum, or have a particle accelerator in your back yard, it's about as dense as you can get.

Thomas Kolb
Chaz, indeed, I didn't know that, but it is 1.7 times heavier than lead. Actually, "tung sten" means "heavy stone" in Swedish, now that should be a hint.

Urban Gardini
The strange thing though is that even considering that tungsten is indeed a Swedish name and is use for the material all over the world. One exception though is Sweden that insists on calling it wolfram instead...

Thomas Kolb
I am just wondering, how much Tungsten is it really in the "tungsten putty". I am tempted to buy a set and measure it before using it. I definitely got some tail sitter candidates in the stash I could use it for.

Urban Gardini
That I don't know.

Chaz Gordon
I found 2mm Tungsten shot for £75/kilo, which works out to £1.50 for 20g. expensive investment, but that would cover a lifetime of pesky tailsitters.

Palo M
Chaz - that's much cheaper then tungsten putty, I only found that for about 8€/15g

Urban Gardini
Well worth it I'd say. Split it with a mate or two and the cost won't be as hefty.

wilky
Pure Tungsten is $2500 per kilo.
Apparently most of it comes from a mine in China thus the extortionist price

Andy Ball
Have I stumbled into a chemistry class by accident? 🙂

Rene Scheiblich
Well some shady guys use to make fake gold ingots from tungsten as it's very close to the exact same density.
I have some chips from my days working a lathe left, saved them for weighing down tailsitters. Those are quite fine and are fixed into place easily with PVA glue. Most likely not pure tungsten, but heavy enough ???? are you still in need? Could send you some.

Sweden is not the only country calling the stuff wolfram, here in germany it's also called Wolfram????

Thomas Kolb
Rene, thanks a lot mate, you are most kind, but I think I will just stick with my regular lead weighs, no need for you to trouble yourself for me! But again, I really appreciate your kind offer! 🙂

Christian Kohl
Hi Thomas! Looks very nice. Can't wait to see the finish result...!

Slavo Hazucha
It's exactly such details like the gun barrels that make the right scale appearance - especially the 37-mil looks really refined 👍

Thomas Kolb
Slavo, I agree, these tiny things make a big difference. The pitot tubes are really nice too, a huge improvement from using stuff like stretched sprue or hypodermic needles.

Christian Bruer
Nice start and progress, I'll take a seat.

Thomas Kolb
Christian, thank you and you are welcome!

Daniel Klink
Great progress..
Seems tht the fit is not the best. Much filler needed?

Urban Gardini
Master is excellent shit...

Thomas Kolb
Daniel, the only poor fit issues so far was around the wing roots. Some tiny amounts filler was also needed to blend in the jet intake parts and the gun pods. The filler around the central seam is just to feather out the join line, so it is not too bad.

Łukasz Gliński
@Urban: Can't agree more 😄 except for their Fulcrum pitot😉
@Thomas: that is looking better every day 🙂

Thomas Kolb
Łukasz, may I ask, what is wrong with the Fulcrum tubes? I was just about to buy it to my upcoming 29's.

Łukasz Gliński
They are:
- designed before the Trumpy's kit showed up,
- made of 3 way-too-tiny parts 🙁
So you have to fiddle with these tiny winglets and then blend it into the Trupmy's radome. MiniWorld pitots are waaaay better and designed exactly for these kits (single and double seater). They are not easy to find (Ebay only me thinks), but definitely worth it.
[img1]

Thomas Kolb
Ah, thanks mate, I guess you just saved me a lot of headache here! 🙂

Thomas Kolb
Yesterday evening I added the dropped flaps. It is a super delicate assembly, not something you want to touch much. Also pitot tubes, windshield, open air brakes and some more minor details were added. I also ordered new resin wheels and a new nose gear from Eduard, the provided, one-piece nose gear with the molded-on wheel looks a bit toy-like to me.

Cuajete
Metal parts looks great. Those barrels, pitot and flaps give it a very realistic plus. I would wish Airfix release a PF version for their Mig-17.

Thomas Kolb
I sprayed on the black primer this morning, but I became to greedy and ended up spraying too thick and puddling the primer. Not very visible on the photos, but it will become very visible with the metalizer on! Argh, so annoying! Now I can either strip everything down to bare plastic or try to salvage it by using a micromesh cloth and polishing it down like hell.

Łukasz Gliński
...or spray the camo over it and make it LiM-5 😛

Daniel Klink
👍👍👍

Andy Ball
Thomas: "We suffer for our art"... bravo on the first stealth Fresco! 😉

Thomas Kolb
Thanks, mates... Actually removing the primer went pretty quickly before it fully dried, with Tamiya Lacquer thinner and a box of cotton swabs. So, now a deep breath and then spray it again, much slower this time. Well, what can I say, you can't hurry love.
@Andy, yes, the MiG actually looks pretty mean in black! But silver it shall be.😉

Géza Szekér
Nice!

Thomas Kolb
Reprimed - looks much better this time. So now I am almost ready for the metal paint, but I am still undecided about the surface finish of the Hungarian Fresco F's - if it was clear varnished metal (shiny), or alu paste paint (flat).

Sergej I
I vote shiny 👍 😄

Thomas Kolb
Sergei, as I was investigating, I think you are probably right. They were rather new and had not yet been overhauled, during which the matt alu-paste paint was applied. So they were probably factory painted with clear varnish over NM finish.

Łukasz Gliński
As far as I'm concerned the Warsaw Pact jets were never as shiny as their US counterparts...

Thomas Kolb
Added the metalizer coat - not exactly mirror finish, but still showroom shiny. Well, this jet is supposed have rolled out of the aircraft plant at Sokol just two-three months ago!

Germen V
great paint

Slavo Hazucha
looks someone did his homework on preparing an immaculate surface really well! 👍 Now it looks almost cleaner & more perfect than most real MiG´s!!!😉

Thomas Kolb
Germen & Slavo, thank you! Yes, it was definitely worth spending extra time on the underlying black primer! Somehow I often tend to forget that metalizers are not like ordinary paints, so even the tiniest scratch or cement stain will be visible. This time I really took my time making sure that the primer is as smooth as I possibly can achieve. But now I am afraid to create panel variations and possibly ruin the showroom shine! 🙁

Sergej I
Beautiful, shiny blink blink!
I would pin-wash it only in panel lines. Too nice to matte it...

Cuajete
Metallized looks great, Thomas!
I share your opinion on the gear bay doors. Plastic ones look better. Maybe I would try to rivet them like Eduard's ... Or not.

Skyhiker
Did you use that Gauzy agent on there? I had nothing but trouble with Gauzy. It kept peeling on me. It got to the point where I had to strip the paint and redo everything. I'll never use the stuff again.

Sergej I
Actually Skywalker, Gauzy or Alclad Aqua Gloss Clear are also my go-to coats for enamel metals.
I never thin them down, spray with medium to minimum pressure and two or three thin coats with 20min in between. Then before I do anything on that surface, I let it dry for a day. Resilliant to tapes, washes, decal setters.
For a perfect gloss I would still choose GX100 thinned 1/3 with Leveling Thinner. Just not over metals, so much MLT eats the thin layer up 🙁

Thomas Kolb
Skywalker, yes, it is Gauzy, straight out of the bottle, applied with a brush. Just one application. For some reason I cannot seem to manage to get a smooth layer by airbrushing, but by using a good, broad brush and careful technique, I can achieve a silky and completely level finish, without any brush marks. I have never experienced any kind of lifting or peeling or any adverse effects with oil paints, washes or turpenoid.

Skyhiker
I found that the Gauzy tends to run. If you let it dry and then try to sand it it peels.

Łukasz Gliński
@Sergej: GX100 works with metals, depending on the metal probably. Haven't encountered any problems with Mr.Hobby SMs and Alclads so far.

Thomas Kolb
I have never tried to sand it, although I have polished it with Tamiya Polishing Compounds a few times, and it worked fine without peeling. On the other hand, the Gauzy Glass Coat (the orange jar) does lift easily with masking tape. It can even be peeled off with a wooden cocktail stick (which can be a good thing if you don't get a smooth layer).

Thomas Kolb
Łukasz & Sergei, how do you guys manage to get such a mirror finish with the GX-100? Are you applying multiple thin coats with waiting inbetween, or spray it on wet-on-wet?

Łukasz Gliński
I spray generously thick layers of very thinned GX, so first it levels and then most of the thinner evaporates. But this can only be done over safe surface (e.g. enamels are excluded).

Sergej I
Thomas, same as Lukasz. I thin it at lease 1 part GX, 5 parts MLT. Then apply wet (but not runny) coats, two usually.
I would wait some 10 minutes in between two coats, which is just finishing the full plane and refill on varnish.
If I need a glass-like surface I would "polish" it afterwards with a wet application of clean MLT.

But applying it wet to metals, it will eat them up in my case. And I can't have thick application of metals, otherwise black base has no effect...
I work with AK Extremes mostly, tested also Alclad Stainless Steel with same effect.
Have to check one last Gunze silver chrome...

Thomas Kolb
Thank you both for your great tips! I think my mistake is that I apply the varnish too thick and do not thin nearly enough. For metal surfaces I find that Gauzy or Alclad Gloss works the best, but I have a few upcoming projects that call for a super glossy surface on top of acrylics, so I will give the GX a new test run.

Sergej I
Thomas I normally open a new GX and pour it whole into a 50 ml dropper bottle, then add MLT until its thin enough, usually I'd fill the whole bottle. Add a steel shaker and good to go for a year or two, I don't need to mess with lid cups and measured thinning...

Thomas Kolb
That, Sergej, is an excellent idea! 🙂