Thread started by Cracka
Peter Hardy
I was advised by a fellow modeller today via a PM that I was transgressing what is acceptable in European Culture by the title of an album / project I am currently working on. The project and Album contained the name of a prominent nazi figure and I now understand that this is offensive to some Europeans. As I live in a place that is as far from Europe as it is possible to be and still be on planet Earth I was entirely unaware of the situation. This I suppose is going to happen from time to time on a world wide medium. I would like to make this public apology to anyone who was offended by my naming of “You know who” and hope they can forgive me. In my own defence this is not a situation that would ever arise in my country and I am of course totally perplexed as to why “you know who” cannot be named but it is acceptable to mention the names of other prolific murderers. That said, I am far from where this person did his worst by humanity and trust that I will not find myself treading on other people’s sensitivities in future.
5 30 April 2022, 10:42
Ralf Topeters
Hi Peter!
Do not let yourself be too concerned by these modern european witchhunts. It is as crazy as it can get, but it helps people not to be confronted with their own personal problems. Sad as it is but this is modern Europe.
A fellow european scalemodeller
Hi Peter!
Do not let yourself be too concerned by these modern european witchhunts. It is as crazy as it can get, but it helps people not to be confronted with their own personal problems. Sad as it is but this is modern Europe.
A fellow european scalemodeller
30 April 2022, 14:06
Torsten
I know which project is meant and it is IMHO a strange understanding to history and objects from it. You don't have to like the actions and positions of people in history and you can still build historical models. Censoring model builders does not make the events better and the concealment that happens through this rather falsifies the history. Unfortunately, one sees it again and again that history or the occupation with subjects or objects from it is not seen gladly by some persons. If you look at all the war machines in scm, where are the boundaries drawn. And if one sees the current events in Europe to it, what may one still say, think and show. This is also a path that can quickly lead to another form of totalitarianism, even if the intention itself seems good. In the end, I had no problem with the title of your project.
I know which project is meant and it is IMHO a strange understanding to history and objects from it. You don't have to like the actions and positions of people in history and you can still build historical models. Censoring model builders does not make the events better and the concealment that happens through this rather falsifies the history. Unfortunately, one sees it again and again that history or the occupation with subjects or objects from it is not seen gladly by some persons. If you look at all the war machines in scm, where are the boundaries drawn. And if one sees the current events in Europe to it, what may one still say, think and show. This is also a path that can quickly lead to another form of totalitarianism, even if the intention itself seems good. In the end, I had no problem with the title of your project.
30 April 2022, 14:35
Peter Hardy
Gents, regardless of my personal thoughts, I am not a product of a European upbringing nor a victim of the collective guilt foisted upon the descendants of the poor sods who were collectively duped into the vortex of the time. Personally, I cannot see any reason why we do not learn from history rather than live the whole Harry Potter / Voldemort / He who must not be named thing. Stalin, Mao, Gengis Khan, Alexander, and countless other historical figures committed similar sins but are celebrated as great Generals, or the Pol Pots, Pizzaro, ect of history are placed under the microscope so that religion or "Year Zero" ideologies don't drag a population down the rabbit hole again. What does interest me personally is why Kaiser Wilhelm isn't tarred with the same brush.
As far as Scalemates is concerned it is not a political forum, we have modellers of all religions, political positions and human orientations joined together with a love of miniaturising objects. For TIM's dream to continue to work we must be careful to guard against outside influences distracting us from why so many of us have found a "club" where we can build and display our masterpieces and failures without judgement.
My apology was to those who feel very strongly differently to me, as I do have a respect for their personal feelings and beliefs. Thank you for the positive and reinforcing feedback. Pete
Gents, regardless of my personal thoughts, I am not a product of a European upbringing nor a victim of the collective guilt foisted upon the descendants of the poor sods who were collectively duped into the vortex of the time. Personally, I cannot see any reason why we do not learn from history rather than live the whole Harry Potter / Voldemort / He who must not be named thing. Stalin, Mao, Gengis Khan, Alexander, and countless other historical figures committed similar sins but are celebrated as great Generals, or the Pol Pots, Pizzaro, ect of history are placed under the microscope so that religion or "Year Zero" ideologies don't drag a population down the rabbit hole again. What does interest me personally is why Kaiser Wilhelm isn't tarred with the same brush.
As far as Scalemates is concerned it is not a political forum, we have modellers of all religions, political positions and human orientations joined together with a love of miniaturising objects. For TIM's dream to continue to work we must be careful to guard against outside influences distracting us from why so many of us have found a "club" where we can build and display our masterpieces and failures without judgement.
My apology was to those who feel very strongly differently to me, as I do have a respect for their personal feelings and beliefs. Thank you for the positive and reinforcing feedback. Pete
30 April 2022, 23:54
bossy122
And the HIDE POST option is always there......right under that cute little cog.
And the HIDE POST option is always there......right under that cute little cog.
1 May 2022, 06:02
Jiri Vybihal
I agree with Peter Hardy.
Also I would say that as long as on your models will not be sign "nacisms rulez" I have no problem with it.
If we will start to consider such things than all modles of ww2 gemarmab AFVs or aircrafts will be baned? All russians because of war on Ukraine? No, let's keep our hobby apolitical and out of this "someone could be offended" culture which unfortunately everywhere...
I agree with Peter Hardy.
Also I would say that as long as on your models will not be sign "nacisms rulez" I have no problem with it.
If we will start to consider such things than all modles of ww2 gemarmab AFVs or aircrafts will be baned? All russians because of war on Ukraine? No, let's keep our hobby apolitical and out of this "someone could be offended" culture which unfortunately everywhere...
1 May 2022, 06:39
Jay Dubya
For what it is worth fellas, a little bit of self-censorship is entirely worth it when we want Tim's community of builders to enjoy their hobby, via this forum. That doesn't mean that we have to all necessarily agree about all matters, but we can respect others POV, when we may not be fully aware that some individual's frame of reference and circumstances may differ significantly from our understanding of people, place and events.
Peter should be commended for taking a relatively small edit and making very public apology - in his words "We all gotta get along".
In my book he is a model builder, of models.
For what it is worth fellas, a little bit of self-censorship is entirely worth it when we want Tim's community of builders to enjoy their hobby, via this forum. That doesn't mean that we have to all necessarily agree about all matters, but we can respect others POV, when we may not be fully aware that some individual's frame of reference and circumstances may differ significantly from our understanding of people, place and events.
Peter should be commended for taking a relatively small edit and making very public apology - in his words "We all gotta get along".
In my book he is a model builder, of models.
13 May 2022, 06:59
Viking93
You shouldn´t apologize. Beeing offended is a trend nowadays and the worst ist to accept these offended people and begin to censor everything which could offend someone. That´s against our democratic core values. None of them experienced the cruelty of Nazi dictatorship so what are they offended about? If it would have been Nazi propaganda it would be ok to moan about it but it wasn´t. They should better get along. If we start here where would it end? My family experienced the cruelty of russian invaders in east germany in 1945 where they murdered, tortured and raped the civilians. But that didn´t make me offended about russian WW2 military models. I even built some by myself, model building is art and not political. So the best way to get along with offended people is to ignore them, they have to get along with the reality and stop living in their own flower world.
You shouldn´t apologize. Beeing offended is a trend nowadays and the worst ist to accept these offended people and begin to censor everything which could offend someone. That´s against our democratic core values. None of them experienced the cruelty of Nazi dictatorship so what are they offended about? If it would have been Nazi propaganda it would be ok to moan about it but it wasn´t. They should better get along. If we start here where would it end? My family experienced the cruelty of russian invaders in east germany in 1945 where they murdered, tortured and raped the civilians. But that didn´t make me offended about russian WW2 military models. I even built some by myself, model building is art and not political. So the best way to get along with offended people is to ignore them, they have to get along with the reality and stop living in their own flower world.
13 May 2022, 07:38
Ralf Topeters
Everything said here thanks to Viking. We cannot survive as humankind by turning ourselves into a bunch of crybabys! Sorry for the hard words but please stay in reality! There is no more to say here now let's leave this stupid question alone and concentrate on modelling.
Everything said here thanks to Viking. We cannot survive as humankind by turning ourselves into a bunch of crybabys! Sorry for the hard words but please stay in reality! There is no more to say here now let's leave this stupid question alone and concentrate on modelling.
13 May 2022, 13:07